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sancho
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Alienation in the Autobiographical Reflections

My doubts are quite simple. Can I use "allotriosis" and "apostrophe" as synonyms? Both are Stoic terms and it seems to me that they have a lot in common.

"Allotriosis" means a state of withdrawal form one’s own self as constituted by the tension toward the divine ground of existence; is a withdrawal from reason in existence. (AR, p.76)

"Apostrophe" means the turning away from the dive ground of reality. (AR, p.101)

Having said that, can I use also as synonyms "periagoge" and "epistrophe"?

Those four terms are not quite clear to me.

Anyone can help me?

Thank you all,
Paulo Sanchotene


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fwagner
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Re: Alienation in the Autobiographical Reflections

sancho wrote:

My doubts are quite simple. Can I use "allotriosis" and "apostrophe" as synonyms? Both are Stoic terms and it seems to me that they have a lot in common.

"Allotriosis" means a state of withdrawal form one’s own self as constituted by the tension toward the divine ground of existence; is a withdrawal from reason in existence. (AR, p.76)

"Apostrophe" means the turning away from the dive ground of reality. (AR, p.101)
They are the same if one goes by Autobiographical Reflections, which is what is used in the glossary of terms compiled by Eugene Webb and found in Volume 34 of the Collected Works.

Having said that, can I use also as synonyms "periagoge" and "epistrophe"?

Those four terms are not quite clear to me.
Again, they are treated the same by the same people.

Best,

Fritz Wagner


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jackelliott
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Re: Alienation in the Autobiographical Reflections

The following message was written by Jim Rhodes and posted at his request:

I suggest starting with the basic Greek meanings. Check
Liddell and Scott. Allotriosis means estrangement, loss of
substance, thus, estrangement from one's own substance. A
rather specialized word that must have an interesting
history. Apostrophe means turning back or away from, with a
flavor of hostility toward that from which one has turned.
Periagoge means turning around. So does epistrophe, except
that it also carries a sense of returning to something as
you turn around.

Next, recognize that Voegelin is analyzing thinkers who
appropriated the common Greek meanings of those terms for
special uses, to designate specific movements of the spirit.
Then stop worrying about the words and concentrate on the
designated movements. It is important to grasp the movements
of the spirit that occurred in the cases analyzed, not the
words for their own sakes.

Third, above all,
avoid falling into a new, Voegelinian scholasticism. Do NOT
reify either the words or the movements of the spirit
analyzed. Kierkegaard's "physician of souls" cannot compile
a DSM-IV of the spirit, as if allotriosis could be a
syndrome parallel, say, to schizophrenia, always with such
and such characteristics, traceable to certain damaged genes
or chemical imbalances or what have you. The spirit can
devise infinite possibilities of messing up. New ones will
always come along. So, confine the words appropriated for
the cases analyzed to the cases analyzed. If you apply them
to new cases, note well the analogous character of your
usage. Concentrate on the reality under observation,
whatever words you find to describe it.

Fourth, take Plato's example and to the greatest extent
possible avoid the creation of a technical vocabulary. Use
ordinary language to talk to ordinary people. Generally,
people are not impressed or enlightened by terms that they
do not understand. "Periagoge," for example, was not a
weighty technical term when Plato used it, nor did he mean
to become that. It just meant "turning around." When you
talk to your students, just say "turning around."

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Jim


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sancho
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Re: Alienation in the Autobiographical Reflections

Outstanding answer. Thank you very much. You, somehow, were able to capture the essence of my problem. I wanted to make a second question after Professor Wagner statement, but it won't be necessary anymore.

My study is about how Voegelin can be helpful in understanding the state of alienation in the juridical experience in modernity; why simply people don't know what Law is, specially in Brazil. These comments are very good to me.

Best regards,
Paulo Sanchotene


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